"Say that Adonai Elohim says, 'I am against you, Gog, chief prince of Meshekh and Tuval." Ezekiel 38:3
The Gog, Magog War - Russia and ?
There is no shortage of opinions on the Gog, Magog war of Ezekiel 38 and 39 and various theories about the identities of the participants, but this page is an attempt to widen the scope of the story and gather some more perspective.
The position of the Gog Magog war on the timeline is also complicated; it appears in both Ezekiel and Revelation but how do the two prophecies line up?
Rather than just dwell on the excitement of the battle, read Ezekiel 35 to 39 and Revelation 16 to 20 straight through in order to get the context, from the regathering of Israel through invasion of Israel to the end of history as we know it; when the GOD of Israel steps in.
This Gog Magog war is not the same as the Battle of Armageddon.
Gog Magog war in Ezekiel
Ezekiel 33 - The call and responsibility of the Watchman
Ezekiel 34 - YHVH says - He is against the "shepherds of Israel. I am taking over - will raise up my servant David
Ezekiel 35 - Against the neighbouring nations who sought to take advantage of Israel's punishment and take possession of their land.
Ezekiel 36 - To the Mountains of Israel (Judea and Samaria - West Bank) - the enemy is boasting over you saying, "Ha! Even the ancient high places are ours now" - God says, "I am here for you" - "then you will be tilled and sown"
The difference between the landscape on the Israeli and Arab sides of the green line is immediately obvious
Ezekiel 37a - The Dry Bones vision - (so often taken out of context) - Israel resurrected from the death camps of the Shoah and returning to Eretz Israel.
Ezekiel 37b - the two sticks illustration; of the rejoining of the fractured parts of Israel
Ezekiel 38-39 - The invasion of hordes from the North and their defeat by YHVH and burial in the Travellers' Valley *
Ezekiel 40-42 - the new Temple in Yerushalayim and the Glory of God returns.
We learn several things that are normally misunderstood, by including the earlier chapters .
1 This war will only occur after the Jews are gathered in from the lands of their exile. The phrase "from all the nations" did not apply to the Babylonian exile, where the Jews were taken to only one nation.
2 We notice that God will cleanse them once they are back, so it is not right to look critically at the Jews, expecting to be perfect before God brings them home.
3 The place God speaks of bringing them back to is "The Mountains of Israel", not just the coastal plain, but the very heart of Israel's history; Judea and Samaria or what the world would have as Palestine. (See Land )
4 The prophecy speaks of a people dwelling securely and unafraid. (Could condition 4 "people dwelling securely and unafraid" be the fruit of the antichrist's treaty/covenant ? Or would it be better fitted by the and of the one thousand year reign of the Messiah ?)
Although we can see that some of the preliminary conditions have been met already, some have not; yet. Some things are "wait and see" while others will be the subject of other prophecies - such as the end of Zechariah and the seven year covenant and the Tribulation in Revelation.
Gog Magog war in Revelation
Revelation 16 - Gathering at Armageddon - after the sixth bowl of God's fury and before the seventh.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Notice 16:15 is a warning of Jesus' return (Messiah's coming) Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Revelation 17 & 18 - the fall of Babylon
Revelation 19:7 - Wedding of the Lamb
Revelation 19:11 - Yeshua the Messiah revealed, and the army of Heaven with him - second coming- Rapture
Revelation 19:17 - Birds summoned to feast on the flesh of kings, the flesh of generals, the flesh of important men, the flesh of horses and their riders and the flesh of all kinds of people, free and slave, small and great!"
Revelation 19 - 21 - Battle - Beast and False Prophet seized and thrown in the lake of fire - the rest of the armies killed
Revelation 20:1 - Satan locked up for a thousand years - Messiah's reign - Millennium
Revelation 20:7 - Satan released to decieve the nations
Revelation 20:8 - Gog Magog come to war
This chronology suggests that the world's armies could assemble at Armageddon some time soon - and possibly move down (if the assumption that Armageddon is Har Meggido is correct) to Jerusalem - the valley of Jehosophat and then Jesus will return with Heaven's armies and defeat the world's armies before commencing his Millennial reign.
It also appears that the war in which Gog and Magog are named will be the last war at the end of a thousand years.
If that is the case, there is little point in dwelling too much on Gog and Magog today as they have over a thousand years to wait. However, some nations appear to be able to maintain a hatred of Israel for millennia. Some patterns of hostility may apply before Armageddon and again before the final war. Maybe the need for a hook in the jaw will be a result of reluctance to repeat the mistake of Armageddon.
Whenever the preliminaries are completed, we note that God will put a hook in the jaw of a group of nations and bring them down against the land of Israel in the latter years.
The allies that come with this northern invader are named by nation (tribe), and Bible scholars have traced the tribes and concluded that this northern army is led by tribes that have settled in Russia and the allied tribes are Islamic nations and are enemies of Israel.
Nations involved in Gog Magog war
Popular assignments of the nations named in plain type. Strongs dictionary in italics
Only names in bold appear in the Hebrew text
Gog - Gog is a person - of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshek and Tubal
Of uncertain derivation; Gog, the name of an Israelite, also of some northern nation: - Gog.
Magaog - Russia - Russia is straight north of Israel, all the way up to the Arctic Circle.
From H1463; Magog, a son of Japheth; also a barbarous northern region: - Magog.
Magog was a grandson of Noah and he and his descendants migrated north toward northern Asia and southeast Europe.
The same in form as H4901, but probably of foreign derivation; Meshek, a son of Japheth, and the people descendant from him: - Mesech, Meshech.
Tuval tûbal tuval
Probably of foreign derivation; Tubal, a postdiluvian patriarch and his posterity: - Tubal.
Paras - Persia (modern-day Iran)
Of foreign origin; Paras (that is, Persia), an Eastern country, including its inhabitants: - Persia, Persians.
Probably of foreign origin; Cush (or Ethiopia), the name of a son of Ham, and of his territory; also of an Israelite: - Chush, Cush, Ethiopia.
Put (poot) Put (modern-day Sudan)
Of foreign origin; Put, a son of Ham, also the name of his descendants or thier region, and of a Persian tribe: - Phut, Put.
? not in KJV ?
Cush (modern-day Libya) not in Hebrew
Libya - this is modern day Libya or ancient Put
Gomer (part of modern-day Turkey)
From H1584 completion; Gomer, the name of a son of Japheth and of his descendants
House of Togarmah (another portion of modern-day Turkey or possibly Syria)
Probably of foreign derivation; Togarmah, a son of Gomer and his posterity: - Togarmah.
Probably foreign derivation - a son of Gomer - also hidden, dark or northern (associated with quarter)
From the above it is clear that there are differences in interpretation of these place names. Different translations choose ancient or modern names.
(Not all of the above can be correct - especially those not in the Hebrew text)
What is clear is that most of these nations aligned with Magog are currently militant Islamic states with an express hatred of Israel.
The convulsions in modern-day Turkey, and its relationship with Russia, are too complex and fast moving to include here, but we would all do well to watch closely.
Other nations are mentioned .
Sheba and Dedan are Saudi Arabia and Kuwait - or - are associated with areas of northern Africa.
Of foreign origin; Sheba, the name of three early progenitors of tribes and of an Ethiopian district: - Sheba, Sabeans.
Of uncertain derivation; Dedan, the name of two Cushites and of their territory. The second form used in Eze_25:13: - Dedan.
Tarshish could be a reference to Spain (which colonized much of South America), Britain (which colonized the United States), Tarshish, all her young lions (English speaking nations) (.those that dwell securely in the isles (or coast lands),
Probably the same as H8658 (as the region of the stone, or the reverse); Tarshish, a place on the Mediterranean, hence the epithet of a merchant vessel (as if for or from that port); also the name of a Persian and of an Israelite: - Tarshish, Tharshish.
Commentators on Ezekiel says that, when the aggressors move against Israel, a few other nations ("Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish") will remonstrate, as will "all her villages" - possibly colonies (Ezekiel 38:13).
The objections to Magog's aggression will fall on deaf ears, however, and the invasion will continue.
However, this is not the most obvious reading of the text, which records only a question; not a remonstration. But the idea of other nations raising an eyebrow but doing nothing to intervene sounds plausible.
Ezekiel's account is clear - - no one comes to Israel's defence.
This is probably equally true of the Armageddon war. By definition, that includes the United States and although American support for Israel has been strong it has become strained under the Obama administration and the political left. The real test, of course, will come when Russia and Iran and their allies begin to move forces toward Israel. How many Americans would be willing to risk nuclear war with Russia and Iran to protect even a loyal ally like Israel? Especially if Moscow and Tehran argue that they have no desire for a confrontation with the U.S. if they will just stay out of the way? Sadly, I suspect the number today is much lower than most supporters of Israel are willing to admit.
Europe already shows itself extremely unlikely to defend Israel as anti-Semitism and anti-Israel attitudes and policies are becoming ever more widespread; along with rising Muslim influence.
The Gog Magog motives - (and Armageddon too?)
"Art thou come to take a spoil?"
It is difficult to speculate on motives more than a thousand years in advance, but Ezekiel says that these nations come against Israel for financial reasons.
But, as for the Armageddon war ...... A few years ago one might have asked what could there possibly be in Israel that would entice all those nations to invade Israel?
But recently they have found 15,000,000,000 cubic feet of natural gas in Israel, and oil is likely to be discovered next.
The signs are that Russia is watching the developments in Israel with baited breath, and just waiting for their moment, with Iran and others, to invade Israel. Russia is using the Syrian civil war to assert itself as a Middle East player, in the power vacuum left by Obama's american policy.
The way Ezekiel's war and Armageddon are described fix them as happening only after the rebirth of the State of Israel and the ingathering of the Jewish people from around the world and some other conditions mentioned earlier.
Russia - Likely involved in Magog and Armageddon wars
While Islam has been covered at some length on wildolive, Russia has not. The following is gleaned from a programme by Glen Beck.
Russia is moving towards regaining superpower status as a new dictatorship. Russia also has strategic ties to regional Islamic countries and is actively aiding Iran in building nuclear power plants that will giver Iran nuclear material for nuclear weapons. The Arab/Islamic countries have a common enemy and at some point they will try to rid themselves of the Israeli presence with Russia as their protector. One could also cite America, referred to as "the great Satan" by many Islamic fanatics.
What about the balance of power between Russia (ex soviet union) the United States?
For many years we were looking at the Communists led by the Soviet Union as the threat to freedom and Christianity but now our attention has switched to Islam. But Russia is not out of the picture even though the Cold War has ended.
Russia almost always takes a position that is contrary to the national security interests of the United States, and exports nuclear technology and advanced weapons of war that they know will be used against the United States, Israel, and the West. (This opposition is one of the amazing things about the UN vote for the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948, when the USA and the Soviet Union voted together for the only time)
Russia has a world agenda that wilfully arms Islamic fascism and rogue dictators to carry out warfare against the West. And, along with China, Russia is enabling Islamic fascism ain other nations confessing hatred toward the West.
Vladimir Putin is gaining power all the time and he has specifically stated that his primary goal is to return Russia to world superpower status. If we assume that it will take Russia about 10 to 15 years to accomplish the re-establishment of a first class military, it probably is no coincidence that the same amount of time is needed for the Arab/Islamic block to become a real nuclear military threat to Israel.
Consider Russia's deep historical roots and notice how Putin is following in the footsteps of Ivan the Great and others who have successfully used nationalism to unite Russians and in turn increase power and control in their region. Vladimir Putin understands Russia's past and is tapping into something deeply ingrained in the Russian people's DNA, and that is the Russian Orthodox Church.
Putin has a plan for Russia and he has people he is using to get it done. The architect whose plan is already unfolding as the foundation of Russia's policies and actions holds views that are beyond radical, beyond understanding, beyond dangerous, and openly fascistic.
Why is formerly communist Russia standing with the neo-Nazis in Greece and Germany and in France, the extreme European right that are pushing xenophobia, anti-Semitism and anti-Islamic hatred. (strangely; at the same time as supporting Islamic fascism) The planned fundamental transformation of Russia will be from a relatively non-ideological, corrupt, soft authoritarian nation into a regressive, ideological, outright dictatorship.
Back in 1991, the Soviet Union economy had come to a screeching halt. Everything was about to change. The people were psychologically demoralized. Their country had fallen apart. It looked increasingly likely that the Soviet Union would collapse. Mikhail Gorbachev, their leader, proposed reforms, but the 16 republics in the Soviet Union didn't want reforms. They wanted independence from the Soviet Union.
The old guard, hard-line Communists desperately wanted to keep the Soviet Union together and in August 1991 they attempted to overthrow Gorbachev in a coup. It lasted two days, then it completely fell apart. Four months after the coup attempt, Gorbachev was on television addressing the nation saying. "Due to the situation with the formation of the Commonwealth of Independent Governments, I must end my duty as President of the USSR. The Soviet flag was taken down from the Kremlin and replaced with the new flag of the Russian Federation. The Soviet Union had officially dissolved. Suddenly, for Russians, all of their national pride was gone.
The Warsaw Pact, which had provided the Russians with a long reach into Western Europe had also come to an end that year. Under the Warsaw Pact, if any of the countries in the red zone were attacked by an outside force, those countries were obligated - Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, Czechoslovakia - they had to defend that state militarily. The unified military would be commanded by the Soviet Union. But now, Russian influence was fading fast because those countries were lost.
However, the Soviet Union had planted Russians in all of these countries and they were Mother Russia people who now found themselves behind foreign borders.
This became obvious in the Ukraine conflict in 2014. What were they demonstrators in Kiev fighting for? They were fighting their president selling out to Putin and selling out and making it Russia. But the ethnic Russians were fighting to return to Russian control.
To KGB colonel Vladimir Putin it was crushing to lose all of this. In his 2005 annual state of the union address, President (of Russia) Vladimir Putin said, "The collapse of the Soviet Union was a major geopolitical disaster of the century". For the Russian nation, it became a genuine drama. "Tens of millions of our co-citizens and compatriots found themselves outside Russian territory." He views it as a major catastrophe that the USSR dissolved, so he wants to be the one to restore it or at least a modern version of it.
When Putin came to power in 2000, he inherited a crippled economy and a nation that lacked direction. In the first eight years of his reign, the Russian GDP grew by over 70%. Individual Russian wages tripled. This made him very popular, but there was something missing, influence. They were no longer the Soviet Union. Putin had been so laser focused on the economy for so many years, that attention to politics and posturing on the international stage had been an afterthought. Russia faded into the background and eventually off the international stage. NATO and EU influence advanced further eastward. The United States and Western Europe practically ignored Russia on the world stage.
Putin needed a geopolitical and a foreign policy that would return Russia and the Russian empire to its previous glory. They had been developing a policy for a long time, and it was put into effect in 2008. Putin has been following it like a playbook ever since. The architect of Russia's geopolitical strategy is Aleksandr Dugin, an advisor for the Kremlin. He is the thinking man behind the kill-large-animals-with-my-bare-hands dictator of a guy. His policy ideas had the fast track to the Kremlin and all of the universities in the former Soviet Union, and because of that, his ideas are truly terrifying, because they are now in play, and will affect not only the people of Russia, but all of civilization.
To get an idea of the Russian pride and their traditional belief that Russia is the divine heir to the throne of Rome, all you really have to do is take a guided tour to the Kremlin. It is a massive fortress. They describe it as the Russian version of Times Square, Pennsylvania Avenue, and the Washington Mall all rolled up into one - so many things to see.
The Kremlin is the official residence of the Russian Federation President, the Kremlin Palace. The Armoury Museum is there. All of the Cold War happened there, but they rush you through all of those government buildings in just a few minutes, and then you'll spend hours on the second part of the tour, that takes you to a succession of Orthodox Churches. One after another, church after church after church after church.
Ivan the Terrible established this. A Russian Orthodox revival is now in full swing and it closely resembles the Nazi church propaganda. When Nazi imagery was glorified in the German church. In fact, within just a few months, Hitler had taken off any picture of Christ and put his picture on the altars of the churches. The same kind of focus is happening in Russia, although in Russia it is slightly different; Russia itself is at the centre.
Here is a quote, "The meaning of Russia is that through the Russian people will be realized the last thought of God, the thought of the End of the World. Death is the way to immortality. Love will begin when the world ends. We must long for it, like true Christians." "We are uprooting the accursed Tree of Knowledge. With it will perish the Universe."
This sounds very much like Islamic jihadists, but these are the words of Aleksandr Dugin, somebody who's known to have great influence on Russian politics. He has been referred to as the brain behind many of Putin's policies.
Dugin believes that Russia is a supreme society, and America is standing in the way. He also believes chaos is in fact divine. In fact, Dugin's political symbol is the eight-pointed star, an ancient pagan magic symbol for chaos. This type of philosophy might sound familiar.
Here are a few snatches - purify the world with fire, die to be able to live, the world starts once it's all torn down and burned down, chaos, a superior race. That could either be the Nazis or Iran and the 12ers from Islam. (In Iran, the 12ers believe it is their job to create chaos to hasten the return of their Mahdi.)
Putin's Russia supports militant regimes, such as the Iranian regime, Syria and Hamas; and Dugin's views and policy ideals are closely aligned. As can be seen when they are closely examined, it becomes clearer why Russia is standing with far-right European xenophobes, neo-Nazis, and the 12ers in Iran. They are using these far right groups in Germany, in Greece, and now in France in a proxy cultural battle against neighbours they seek to diminish.
Just one year after Putin became president of the Russian Federation in 2000, Aleksandr Dugin founded the Eurasia party. Basically what they believe is that America is the prime enemy. Dugin preaches, "What man is, is derived not from himself as an individual, but from politics. It is politics that defines the man. It is the political system that gives us our shape."
A popular German historian said similar things in the late 1800s and pioneered decades of German racism. The end result was Nazi Germany, so when the colour revolutions started to spring up all over the former Soviet Union in the early 2000s, it's no surprise that Dugin blamed America. Putin echoed Dugin's views. "We see tragic consequences of the wave of so-called "‘colour revolutions," the turmoil in the countries that have undergone the irresponsible experiments of covert and sometimes blatant interference in their lives. We take this as a lesson and a warning, and we must do everything necessary to ensure this never happens in Russia."
In 2008 when Russia invaded Georgia, what happened? They said that they were protecting all of these Russian people, the ethnic Russians mentioned earlier, they had moved in to Russianize all the states from the former Soviet Union. And so Putin goes in, and he says - just did it with Ukraine - I'm just trying to help those ethnic Russians.
Flash forward now to 2014. Dugin's playbook has been unleashed. The neo-Nazis here, the far-right Fascists here, and what do they all have in common? What are they all looking to do? They are all looking for chaos just like the Iranian Mullahs.
We should expect to see more from Dugin in the future. I would urge you to pay attention to him. The problem Putin faces now is that he has awakened extremists, and he has made them promises. They feel that Putin hasn't gone far enough, so how far will they go if they feel they've been betrayed? Dugin is already starting to talk about betrayal. Would an assassination in Russia add to chaos, and would that be a bad thing for someone like Dugin?
What's very interesting to note here is that for the first time in 2,500 years, Russia and Iran are now working together, with all the nuclear know-how of Russia being used to create a nuclear Iran. You will also take note that when any nation attempts to sanction Iran for all the tricks they pull it is always Russia, and China, that side with Iran against everyone else.
You will also note that the vast majority of the nations in Ezekiel's list have one glaring thing in common - they are all Muslim nations. Militant Islam has two goals in our day and age. The first is that of spreading Islam to every country in the world, so that Islam and Sharia law will become the way by which the world is to be governed. Second is the complete and total destruction of the Jewish people.
Meanwhile in Russia
As Russia deepens its involvement in Syria, it risks more than a military quagmire. Its intervention exacerbates a growing domestic threat, one that could destabilize the whole country. A new brand of radical Islam is rising in Russia, fuelled by Russian fighters eager to perpetrate acts of terror at home.
Even a decade ago, the scope and depth of this emerging terrorist network would have seemed inconceivable. While Russia has suffered its share of domestic terrorism, those crimes were largely perpetrated by Chechen fighters based in the North Caucasus region. When Moscow declared victory in Chechnya in 2009, it suggested that the threat of radical violence had been largely contained. But militant Islam didn't disappear. In fact, the fundamentalist teachings have spread from Chechnya throughout central Russia. Article continues
How this plays into the story is not clear.
What about Turkey?
Gomer (part of modern-day Turkey) and House of Togarmah (another portion of modern-day Turkey or possibly Syria) feature in the Ezekiel War story.
Ezekiel 38:6 Gomer with all its troops; the house of Togarmah in the far reaches of the north, with all its troops — many peoples are with you.
Turkey rather faded out of the Middle East where the Ottoman Empire had ruled such a large area until its defeat in World War 1. But now President Erdogan is rolling back the efforts of Attaturk to make Turkey into a modern, secular democracy, and is seeking to become ruler of a big regional player among Islamic powers.
Turkey has had a variable relationship with Israel. Turkey appears willing to make trade deals for water and gas, but has been involved in michaief making against Israel, supporting the Gaza flotillas etc.
Turkey has been tinkering with the conflict in Syria. While attempting to export all the refugees streaming their way onwards into Europe, Turkey was making it easy for European jihadists to get to join Islamic State / Da'esh.
Turkey's relationship with Russia appears ambiguous, with Turkey shooting down a Russian plane, but both nations appear to have a common purpose in expanding their influence in the Middle East - whether in partnership or competition is not clear.
If you want to follow Turkey's progress - sign up for material from www.meforum.org/
The conclusion of the Ezekiel War
There will be a mass funeral for the hordes of Gog and Magog. This will be the world's biggest and bloodiest war in human history and they will be fighting (and losing) against God
There will be so many dead bodies strewn in the valley * that the Israelis must bury them in order for anyone to pass through. The Russian Federation has one of the largest military forces in the world and so if Gog or Magog is Russia and the Chinese joined together, it would not be surprising that dead bodies will block access through the valley because there will be millions upon millions of casualties with bodies piled upon bodies.
Ezekiel 38:23 I will show my greatness and holiness, making myself known in the sight of many nations; then they will know that I am .'
Imagine the BBC and CNN correspondents doing their piece to camera, trying to explain what is happening while well outside their accustomed frame of reference. (bias, prejudice, agenda)
* The travellers' valley, east of the sea, appears to be accepted as east of the Dead Sea. and so called because it was the great road by which the merchants and traders from Syria and other Eastern countries went to Egypt. It appears to be in ancient Moab , modern Jordan, God's final, greater Israel. It is interesting to note burial without weapons (no military honours) and Israel having to dispose of the weapons.
Consider how this Ezekiel account parallels Zechariah's account in chapters 12 and 14 and Joel's "
I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Y'hoshafat........."
Glen Beck - http://www.theblaze.com/stories
Or Google for yourself
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